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Government and Smart Cities Interplay: The Fusion of 5G, AI, Blockchain, Big Data
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Nov 9, 2023
Panel Government and Smart Cities Interplay: The Fusion of 5G, AI, Blockchain, Big Data, IoT and Cybersecurity Antonio Vieira Santos | Moderator | Senior Workplace Expert at Atos I Member of the Siemens #SIEX Community - https://www.linkedin.com/in/antoniovieirasantos/ Shameer Thaha | Global Chief Strategy Officer at Accubits Technologies - https://blog.accubits.com/author/shameer-thaha/ Aghiath Chibib | Founder and CEO at SEECRA - https://www.seecra.com/ Jose Graca | Chairman and CEO at Bizmoni Corp - http://bizmoni.io/ at openbusinesscouncil Summit #obcsummit FULL PROGRAM https://openbusinesscouncil.org/summit/ JOIN THE CONVERSATION https://twitter.com/openbusinesshq https://twitter.com/citiesabc__ https://www.facebook.com/openbusiness... https://www.instagram.com/openbusines...
View Video Transcript
0:00
So, welcome to our Government and Smart Cities Interplay session
0:13
With me, I have the pleasure of having Shamir Tahr, Global Chief Strategy Officer at Acubits
0:18
Technology, Ajit Chabib, Founder and CEO of Sikra, and Jose Grasse, Chairman and CEO
0:24
of Bismosi Corp. I follow with great interest the appointment of a chief digital officer for London
0:33
It seems a preeminent role, but many cities still don't have a CDO or a digital transformation team
0:42
I find this quite problematic, considering that this is an important role
0:48
and this is a type of role that will be particularly important
0:54
on the development of smart city initiatives. So I would like to know the views of the guests on this panel
1:06
about what they think about the importance of a chief digital officer
1:10
in the context of government and smart cities initiatives. And I could start with you, José
1:15
Well, to be honest with you, the way I look at it is that you need to have a team, right
1:21
So one individual by itself doesn't get far away, even if it's a chief digital officer
1:27
And more and more, what you see is that chief, let's put it like this, chief technology officers
1:34
or chief information officers, chief data officers, whatever you want to name it, they
1:38
become more and more common. And it's also quite common in organizations today to find more than one tech guy in the officer's roles, like, for example, CTO, CDO, and even a CIO and a chief information security officer
1:54
So, in essence, we're all part of a team, and the team is going to make it happen
2:05
Yeah, absolutely, Jose. You know, we've seen, like you said, you know, we've seen roles of CIO and CTO in smart cities, right
2:13
And, you know, CTO is really basically an addition to that, what you call as a government's digital leadership team
2:20
And with everything that's happening today, the, you know, spurt of information being disseminated through different media, social media, email, etc
2:28
Even AI has literally found its way, disguising as what we call as a chatbot
2:32
So CDO's role is even more important today to convert all those conventional operations to digitized systems
2:39
Now, I think CDO is not really a replacement to a CIO
2:44
It's basically someone who is basically a link between this, what we call as a digital leadership team and cities with everyone from the city planning council to all the departments and governments
2:59
So I think they play a very critical role. And I think not having one at this time
3:06
is definitely going to be hindering the growth of a smart city in itself
3:11
We've been working with smart cities in different cities, like say Coburn and Australia
3:17
and a few others as well. And we've seen that public-private partnership
3:21
really work well. So I think not having a CDO could be quite detrimental
3:26
it's like i said you know it's it's really a link between the digital team of cto cio and and
3:33
departments across the board which is literally critical in executing those uh smart city initiatives
3:42
yeah yeah please go ahead uh yeah i definitely agree with you gentlemen uh but the role itself
3:51
like Antonio, I want to say it is very new. I mean, digital transformation, what is his role
3:58
what he needs to do, what his background of the CTO will be
4:03
Do he have to have an IT background? Do he have to have a digital background, marketing background
4:10
What kind of background, if you want to decide for CTO? Because when we're talking, we always talk about digital transformation
4:18
digital transformation and what it is if you define it really for smart cities
4:22
go to that you define it for smart cities it's a mix of everything
4:30
as a background for CTO you need to have very solid my opinion
4:36
very solid IT, very solid strategic background and at the same time you need to have
4:44
some know-how about cybersecurity because it's very important and the vision where they want to do
4:52
the application they want to put, the AI system, the IoT system they want to do
4:58
Therefore, as Hussain said, I agree 100% that you need to add the team
5:02
because one man, he cannot do it. And the same decision what has happened for London
5:09
I believe he stopped like the entire program towards some rumor or some in the news came out
5:16
He stopped the entire program actually for digitalization. For one, he had the power to stop it at that time
5:24
And therefore, I agree 100% with Shamir and Hussain that you need the team around him
5:31
You need the multiple discipline around the CBO in order really to exceed and execute his job properly
5:44
Absolutely. You know, just to add on to that point, you know, the role of the CDO really varies from city to city
5:52
In some cases, they could be like advocates and agents of change, like you said
5:57
Some literally fill purely roles of, you know, coordinating to ensure that, you know, all this complicated digital infrastructure projects get completed
6:06
But one thing in common is that all of them literally acts as what we call as a center of gravity for city government employees
6:14
who could maybe a few thousands or just maybe connect between the private sector
6:21
the startup communities, who basically they wouldn't know how to connect with city governments
6:28
And they are basically that center of gravity between these different ecosystem players within the space
6:35
True. so uh moving for moving moving forward to to a topic that is very close to to to my heart i i
6:46
was really uh uh i was recently talking with a city official that works in the in this space of a
6:53
of transformation and and he was telling me oh that you know that the architects that work with
6:59
him are sometimes more interested in winning a design or a smart city award while he's trying to
7:07
mitigate, for example, that a visually impaired person might get injured in result of the changes
7:13
that they are implementing within the city. So how can we build smart cities that consider
7:20
inclusion by default We know that in many countries aging populations are quite preeminent but considering that many smart cities result from public investment
7:35
how can we make sure that with smart cities also consider the need for the inclusion
7:42
and mobility of people with disabilities and the elderly? So I have a very specific view on that
7:52
especially because I've been following NAO which will be the next smart city
8:01
one of the biggest smart cities in the world which is built in Saudi Arabia
8:05
right now and they say it's like 30 times the size of New York so it's quite big
8:12
The problems that I've been looking into basically going through two directions
8:17
First of all, there is no way you can build a smart city without thinking about the economy of the city itself
8:26
And I think that this is very overlooked in all the projects. So if you only think about it, it's about buildings, then you're quite wrong
8:35
And look at our cities today, you know. Most of the cities that we visit, unfortunately, people are stuck like, I will say like a chicken pot
8:44
they get a block and they are put inside this block and there was no there's not
8:52
a lot of comfort in the whole setup and that's how Vigma has really
8:58
interesting it's not about how the building looks from the outside it's also
9:03
about how the building works from the inside now I'm quite excited about what
9:09
in from now because they they pick it up in a very global um let's say concept or including
9:18
transportation and how the more or less the economy will flow and the type of people they
9:22
want to put into uh into that the new smart city but in essence i still could not understand and
9:30
that's where my worry goes always how is it going to be in the inside because we have seen the code
9:36
and this will not be an isolated issue that suddenly can be stopped in our homes for like
9:45
one or two years. And if your lifespan will be as expected in the future, like 150 years
9:52
you can expect that at least probably like between three and five times you will be confined
9:58
in your environment and moving the remote workforce as we have seen into your
10:07
work environment at home the homes are really not prepared unfortunately to have
10:14
more than one person working at the same time because by personal experience I see
10:19
there me and my wife we will work both at home and what we see is that we need to
10:25
have separate environments because I could not do this show today with you if she would not be
10:32
in the living room as an example, right? So this is the problem. I don't know what Samir thinks about me
10:41
No, I think when you talk about inclusion by default in smart cities, right? So
10:46
you know, I think smart cities should fundamentally aim to help literally all citizens, especially
10:51
those across a range of ages and physical or cognitive abilities. Now imagine a city where
10:57
a person in a wheelchair or pushing a straw look and chart, let's say a route to the local park
11:03
using curb cuts and avoiding barriers. You know, there she will, you know, say wirelessly log onto
11:10
a park itself and receive notifications of park events or learn about, you know
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you know those trees and flowers currently imagine where cities where you know refrigerators can
11:23
perhaps provide alerts right of any diminishing essentials so that you know caregivers can just
11:29
adjust their grocery list before they visit their parents home so smart cities need to really create
11:34
that vision for you know daily living where the world around us is conducive to making you know
11:39
life easier and let people focus on you know personal connections now inclusion really needs
11:45
to happen at that level, at that vision. And framework setting is something that I think would help
11:52
Early on, when you start thinking about what are the capabilities that the smart city requires, considering the challenges
11:58
of the aging population, accessibility, and taking into account different aspects like education, housing, emergency services
12:08
health, quality of life in general. So these are things that needs to be considered very early on
12:14
And, you know, I've come across various frameworks that have been implemented, you know, right when you design the smart city
12:21
And this is something that really needs to be thought through at a very early stage
12:25
I think one great example that I've come across is in the city of Melbourne
12:31
Now, there was an eight-month pilot project where basically visually impaired people could navigate public spaces
12:38
So, on one of the rail terminals, they use Bluetooth and free GPS smartphone application
12:43
application I think it was called blind square or something that to literally
12:47
create a beacon based navigation system so indoors they use beacons to actually
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provide you know especially when it's you know inhibited with GPS capabilities
12:57
indoors they use beacons to actually give audio cues so it even gave
13:02
information to visually impaired people like in real time about issues if
13:06
there's an escalator outage or there's a block on the road it would give you
13:10
that information in real time. So these are things that I think you know is part
13:17
of you know what I would envision as inclusion you know especially considering
13:21
different categories of people that you know we would basically consider in our
13:26
smart city. I fully agree with you Shamian and the point it is like we have
13:36
two options like as you say there's neon they're building everything from scratch i mean they have
13:44
really the uh luxus and the option really to consider everything the high-tech the all the
13:54
ram all the uh let's say flexibility to have really to maintain the latest and greatest
14:01
in the small city. But what about city which is like 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, 100 years old
14:08
How they can adapt to this? There's a lot of integration and a lot of tweaking there and
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as we all know, like any disruption in the city, it can cause a lot of traffic and really a headache
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for everybody being in the back, for everybody. Therefore, there's a lot of cities that are
14:29
They have the budget. And what I see very, very important, it is, I believe that what we're building in cityabc.com
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please I encourage you all to look at it. It is amazing because we built a kind of indexing algorithm in order to rank all the city around
14:51
the world about eligibility about accessibility how smart the cities are really actually based on various information we have and I believe this give us as will be a great platform to give us indication which city doing what how much effort are they only talking we are smart and we are a smart city and only for VR or it is there is actual work done really to
15:24
to turn it and to bring it for more user or let's say citizens friendly
15:31
through connectivity, through different services they can offer to improve the availability in the city
15:43
Because I believe that if we go off on this direction, we end up creating better spaces that are inclusive for everyone
15:55
We will improve the quality of life within the city space. And we will break isolation of people that sometimes are not able to leave their homes
16:07
or to take a bus or a metro in order to get out of their homes
16:13
because there's still a reality today in a few cities that I've been observing in Europe
16:19
where if you are a student in a wheelchair, you somehow need to book in advance a train before you go
16:28
You can't just go to the train station and decide that you are going to travel
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You need to book in advance to make sure that the infrastructure from the side
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of the transport company is ready to receive you when you are there
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So this is still a reality today. So we hope changes in the future would somehow mitigate this problem that we are facing
16:54
And I think this is like more maybe third world issues, like in Europe and all the cities really investing in the infrastructure
17:04
and really to make it like more citizens friendly. they have already the infrastructure ready like if you are on wheelchair you can use the pass
17:16
the train everywhere moving around the city and outside of the city in the urban places
17:23
very easy but maybe where you're saying Antonio it is like more really in the development country
17:31
No, no, I'm talking about Ireland. So that's the reality. As you know, this is an area where I've been doing some work
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And sometimes we have the idea that, oh, Europe is doing some very interesting work here
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in the United States or in Scandinavia, things are going really well
17:57
Sometimes the good examples come from surprising places. not necessarily the developed countries
18:04
I think this is a space where we all need to learn with each other
18:09
And there are very interesting cases and very interesting solutions being the top in South America
18:18
and that people wouldn't immediately relate as a country or an area
18:24
that will be leading on this space. I think, to be fair, I prefer to say that every country in the world
18:30
is doing interesting things and we all need to learn with each other. And I found particularly interesting that we are having this conversation here today
18:39
because this is a type of conversation that usually happens in niche conversations
18:44
So an event that's dedicated to people with disabilities will be talking about this event
18:51
about the topic that we are talking here today. This will be the topic that will be discussed as a technology event like the one that we
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are having here. So it's very good. It's particularly interesting that we're having this conversation and highlighting how important it is, considering that we are building smart cities
19:09
A lot of investment is being made, and this is particularly important that we consider the needs of all citizens
19:18
so uh uh moving to uh uh to the topic of of of 5g that is a kind of a a buzz all over the world if
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we if i go to twitter if i go to linkedin if i go to facebook 5g is everywhere you know
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uh it's it's following us wherever we go uh but uh ever we have seen different approaches to 5g
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in different countries. For example, in Portugal, the telcos are still waiting
19:49
for the government to establish a framework that they can apply for licenses
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In other countries, licensing is far more advanced. And we're also seeing
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this kind of different strategies. In some places, business and cities are creating private 5G networks
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independent from telcos. So I would like to have your views about this type of developments
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How do you see the developments and the rollout of 5G around the world
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And if there's a particular example that you would like to highlight that help us to make 5G more tangible in the real world
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we are able to say, oh, this is 5G, this is a very interesting and useful case
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of the application of 5G to improve an industry, to improve society
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or even to cases where we actually start to implement self-driving cars, as an example
20:48
So in 5G, we need to understand that it's it's a technology which is mature in the sense that it's on the market but it's far away
21:02
from being implemented in everywhere and the result if it would be are tremendous in the
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essence that one of the things that 5g for example permits is like a super speed communication
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between smartphones and it will enable more or less a huge amount of data collection and then
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then you need to think a little bit further, like fast treatment with AI and decision-making
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on that point. So a lot of, let's say, products and softwares still need to come out on the market because
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a lot of countries just don't have this implemented. A closed loop could help, but I don't think you get very far away because telecom today
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you know the majority of the content that you approach they come from
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everywhere typically they don't come from the city that you are so if you limited that to close group city you know the effect is very limited I can
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tell you that we have this money for we are more or less in that area that we
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have a product which is already prepared and developed for five feet and in
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In essence what we do is we are trying to bring something to the market which is business inclusion It has also to do with what we were talking about about the whole setup of the construction because let me put it like this
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There is no way our lives will change drastically if we don't tackle, let's say, the comfort of the citizens itself
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that they have stability in their income, that they are happy in the housing that they are
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that they are happy in the environment that they live like the city, but also that they feel
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comfortable and secure in the whole landscape in the country that they live in. So it's an add-on
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right? And 5G can be an improvement into a good solution to make things happen
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but it's definitely not the last solution and it's far away from being implemented in the
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let's say everywhere far away maybe um has a different view of that or maybe he agrees
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yes i i i agree with you actually i live as you all know here in uae and here is kind of country
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To be honest with you, I have been waiting for my iPhone 12 to come out because of the 5G
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And I put it and I went yesterday a little bit driving around just to see how true
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First of all, I can be honest with you. I will tell you that I have been very disappointed with the speed
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I was like that. Not wow. Extremely fast. For the application I need, it's okay
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But the coverage is excellent. I enjoyed the speed. It was much better
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there's a different, but if you see it, how this is from a personal view
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now, from the business objective and business application, I believe it will be a game changer
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Like as Antonio said, there's a lot of government, they're implementing their
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own network for 5G and I can give you many use cases, how they can
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apply and implement the private 5g to enhance the services to enhance security and talking about
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like really physical security through communication as to video streaming live video streaming
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you can really use it for multiple application, live access for remote monitoring
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As example, we do in one of the company, I'm one of the co-founders out in California
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We are very, very, very strong in tele-robotic. And now the 5G, really whatever the team now in California
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doing as a testing and everything this will change the entire world
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testing the field we are doing because today we can really start to operate a robot sitting
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in in california out from dubai with the telerobotics through a haptic suit
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and this before you couldn't do it you couldn't really use such kind of application
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in there in our world therefore i'm very very happy and excited for the possibility what 5g
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can give us and the application the different application we can utilize it and really saving
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life whatever in healthcare security and government application really to apply it to save life
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when utilizing 5g absolutely i think those were some amazing points uh agiat and jose um now as a technology company
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dealing with say smart cities and enterprises we at accubits have seen a lot of interesting use cases
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with 5G, such as in education, healthcare, energy. But, you know, primarily three major sectors
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where we're seeing a demand for this are mainly in transportation, public safety
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and security of, let's say, citizen services, right? Now, technologies such as computer vision
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find a lot of applications. In fact, I think, Agit, you kind of mentioned
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or touched upon that as well. In fact, you know, we have a platform called Emotics
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which basically supports smart city deployments on computer vision. Now, the limitation of bandwidth and data transfer is what we're trying to remove with 5G
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Now, 5G for a consumer versus a business application is very different
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A consumer may not really find the impact of it, yes, greater speeds
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But from a business perspective, it has huge impact. So, I mean, obviously, the availability of 5G at scale is what needs to come about for smart cities to actually start seeing the benefits of it
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um see so if you think about you know computer vision or you know real-time ytics of video
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recordings and public venues couple it with biometric software you can identify dangerous
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situations and literally alert authorities when you know there's a situation like a car accident
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or let's say a terrorist attack unlike cctv systems today 5g enabled equipments can literally
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update over the air and you know interconnect across various services. Now they can also be
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you know eliminating you know any sort of fixed wiring. It can even extend to mobile
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form factors like drones and robots you know like you mentioned. I think those are great applications
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Verizon for instance I think is a great example. They did something I'm not sure which year it was
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Sacramento and California where they deployed a traffic management system using IOT sensors
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literally deployed in pavements and on street lights to you know give better information to
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authorities on traffic flow now they said that they could literally reduce say their cars you
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know idle time by 44 percent and reduce co2 emissions now they signed a deal with 5g allowing
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for free infrastructure use for 10 years and literally fast-tracked the permits for 5G
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to ensure a fast and more effective network rollout. In return, they agreed to provide
29:05
little free Wi-Fi in selected areas of the cities. So I think this is just a start
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Later, we should be able to see, like you said, like Antonio mentioned
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fully autonomous cars and better communication services across the city. In fact, here, just at Jitex this year and last year also, we've been seeing telecom operators like Etzlat showcase autonomous flying taxis using remotely controlled systems using 5G
29:39
So I think there's still a level of maturity that needs to come about
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We're just at its very nascent stages. I was at G-TACS last year and at CES, who were in different
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years but it was in the in a in a very close timeline and uh two tech events that suddenly
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almost became car shows you know suddenly cars are taking over and and you know at ces there were
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there were cars all over the place there was a uh helicopters uh small helicopters robots so
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So in the past, people will go there to see the latest smartphone or the latest gadget
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And now they become, you know, people go there to see this new cars, helicopters, robots that are moving around
30:41
So it's a very interesting development. But one of the things that I think it relates with what you guys are saying is the data, all this technology
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we will see a shift in where the data is going to be processed
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Do you expect a grow in terms of edge computing where the data will be more
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processed on the edge instead of the cloud? In the future we're observing
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a massive growth in terms of cloud computing but do you see
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a kind of a 50% edge, 50% cloud or do you see edge
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becoming preeminent in terms of a place where the data is going to be processed
31:28
Please, please start. Let me put it like this. I think we are far away from having
31:38
smartphones that can process real big amounts of data. Obviously, a lot of this data is already
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processed by the smartphone itself because some minor executions that are not so important
31:53
You can process it internally and then shift it over to the cloud. But there is no way you can do
31:58
artificial intelligence within smartphones, not even with 5G. I think for at least
32:04
a few years. And the big breakthrough in essence for artificial intelligence
32:12
is quantum computing. and we are not so far away from that it's for military purposes definitely there are for a long
32:23
time already in place but nobody talks about it that's for consumer deployment we are far away but
32:32
I it would not surprise me if we would be able to get the first prototypes like what I really
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remember always the Mac, right? The first Mac, the first Apple when it came out. And so it would not surprise
32:45
me that in five years we would be able to see maybe the first
32:50
companies coming on the market. And if that happens, then definitely your smartphone
32:55
will get in haste in such a way that your smartphone has
32:59
huge computer power compared to even what you have in the data center today in a very small
33:04
device. And that's a different story than the hatch, what you are talking
33:08
about definitely will come in question yeah and i i need i need to add to this uh say a little bit
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that's agreeing with you with the edge because i believe uh this would really be again a game
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changer for a lot of application and i'm talking about this out of experience uh again at telebiomex
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in California, the company, one of the co-founders, we have a brilliant people, and they started
33:39
with very, very interesting use case. I can talk about it briefly now. How to utilize the edge
33:49
computing, the power of the edge, the AR, and the power of the 5G combined together by the face
33:57
recognition. As you know, it is big issues around the world, the face recognition about
34:05
privacy and all these things. But there's a crime you need to fight also. And the government
34:11
they need really to implement face recognition everywhere. What we did, we did at the edge
34:18
really, at the camera, where we can have the face recognition from, let's say, assume wanted people
34:26
criminal. Okay. And this will be processed really at the edge without to send all
34:32
the people data and interfere in their privacy. And only the relevant information
34:42
will be sent back to the central location. And this will be again changing
34:47
also in the privacy of data, privacy of the citizens. other application I see it in Edge also now in security like there's a lot of
35:03
application where you can really have your anti-manware or anti virus really
35:10
sitting at your mobile your endpoint and learn all these algorithms and what you
35:17
need to learn and send back to the central brain back the data
35:25
And this can be only possible really through the connectivity, through the IoT distributed around the different city
35:38
different location. And through the power of computing, we're getting everyday mobile for now
35:45
Now the new mobile phone, they are as fast as laptop or computer actually five years ago. Yeah
35:55
All new shifts. Yeah. And therefore I believe it really will help a lot
36:04
our society to improve and security also to improve. And hopefully also the privacy of the citizens
36:13
to be improved also. not to get everything shared everywhere. This is how I see it
36:19
I don't know, Shamir, you are... Yeah, no, I second that as well, Agir
36:25
You know, we've been, you know, working in similar spaces as well, right
36:30
So I think there is a huge demand for edge compute, especially because, you know
36:35
not all projects are greenfield, right? So when you got a retrofit IoT devices
36:40
and, you know, have issues in having a fixed wiring, you can only look at an edge compute device
36:48
And the ability to literally have basic ytics run on the device and just send the metadata
36:56
or yze information onto the server literally saves a lot of bandwidth requirements as well
37:02
So there's a huge cost savings. I mean, we don't need to talk about the benefits of edge compute
37:07
but think about smart metering applications for smart grids. and other solutions as well
37:14
So even computer vision based solutions have huge implications. Now we are one of the partners
37:21
within AI Builder program and our solution is actually scaled on the CPU based architecture So we are able to compute most of those things on edge and which makes it highly scalable as well
37:35
So I think with 5G and edge compute, we should probably be seeing a big paradigm shift
37:42
in the way of adoption of some of these applications as well
37:47
The only prohibitive factor right now is the cost of some of these edge devices
37:51
And with Moore's law, we should expect that to actually come down as we go into the future
38:00
And, Javier, I have a question now at you, actually. You are too much involved in smart city
38:09
and big project around the world, and with Atos, I believe. How do you see it
38:16
What is your point of view of utilizing the 5G, and the edge computing..
38:26
No, just about a year ago, our previous CEO, Terry Bertone
38:40
that has now a role within the European Commission, he did a presentation at VivaTech in Paris
38:47
where it was predicting that the grow of edge, that edge will be the place
38:55
where most of the data processing would end up taking place within the future
39:01
To some of the points that you have talked about, about the security and privacy
39:08
and the fact that there's enough computer power on the edge machines to process a lot of data
39:15
It could be a large factory where machines could do all the AI for that and then do synchronizations with the cloud at specific periods of the day
39:33
So they don't need to be permanently connected to the internet or to the cloud, but they could connect in cycles
39:42
And that also has the potential to improve the security of certain infrastructures, because they are not always connected, and that would improve on that side. It will end up supporting the improvement also at the level of cybersecurity
39:58
And we were previously talking about 5G, and that's where I see some very interesting developments in the space of manufacturing between edge and 5G in the factory, in the shop floor, enabling robots in the factory to move
40:17
So I see some very interesting developments in that space. I see some car manufacturers moving into that direction
40:25
and doing a lot of tests in that space. Saying that, I also have seen cases where people talk
40:36
in implemented 5G, but 5G can be replaced by traditional radio, you know, radio waves
40:43
So sometimes you don't always need 5G. There are some old technologies that can still be used that don't require all that type of investment
40:55
So I think when we talk about 5G, it's also important to look to other types of networks and wireless signals that are available, that are very known for years
41:06
and how we can somehow create an hybrid model to say, okay, in this situation here, we don't need 5G
41:13
we can use radio signals just in specific situations. So I think that's why I started this conversation
41:22
with the fact that we're talking about having a CIO or chief digital officer
41:26
It's particularly important for cities to have the capacity to have technologists, to have a team that is able
41:32
to make this type of judgments and not just to buy onto the trend of like 5G
41:39
To really look at the application, what I need, what is the real need for the application
41:47
the use case I'm using, do I implement 5G, edge, or I will go for the radio frequency
41:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that critical mass is particularly important. You know, it's almost like that everyone
42:05
Every city needs to be digital savvy, needs to have that team that has that ability to
42:12
make the judgments. Exactly. I would even dare to say, not only your city, also your house
42:23
True. And when we started the conversation on this topic, José was talking about quantum computing
42:34
and we at Atos, we released it just a few days ago
42:39
what we call a Q-score. It's a benchmark independent from all the vendors
42:45
where they can benchmark quantum computing because what we see now, everyone is measuring quantum computing in a different way
42:53
So this would allow everyone, all the vendors, to use the same benchmark
43:00
and then compare the performance of their machines in an independent way
43:06
So I think this will be... Because we've seen all the organization
43:11
oh, we achieve quantum supremacy here and then tomorrow someone else will say the same
43:17
It will be interesting to benchmark everyone under the same standards to see who is actually providing the best
43:26
Because sometimes what you might see as supremacy, it doesn't mean that that speed or what you have achieved is actually useful
43:33
No, you achieve a level of supremacy or data processing that can be useful in some cases
43:41
but we need to look at the reality of implementation of quantum
43:45
and this is what Quizcore wants to aim. And don't you think that machine learning chips
43:52
that are coming now on the market are a big step forward
43:56
in the whole quantum computing process? I think they are. And I think we've seen some very interesting developments from NetVidia
44:07
That can be really, can be very, very, very, very interesting. But there's another element that then I would like to jump into our last, to another topic that is cyber securities
44:22
We are talking about quantum computing, but it's something that's maybe four or five years
44:30
But it's important that we start looking also at protecting ourselves in terms of the threats that can come from quantum computing in terms of cybersecurity
44:42
How can we protect our existing access from the quantum computing processing
44:49
Because if quantum computing is out there we need to rethink cyber security as well Yeah Yeah maybe I pick up here Because it a topic that I really love
45:05
So let me put it like this. We really don't know at this stage, right
45:12
what will be the full impact of everything. We just have predictions and views of what is going to happen
45:20
And we know that quantum computing, the processing power, because quantum computing especially is good in executing a huge volume of data
45:31
A lot of people don't understand that traditional computers still have a place, even if we have quantum computing
45:39
because traditional computers do something that quantum computers are not so good in, like small executions
45:45
And this is something that the public in general doesn't understand. But it's true that the security protocols, because it's so massive in the execution, that can be cracked like in a snap
46:00
And the only way we can ever solve this is basically having security protocols all upon computing itself
46:06
Because there is no other way you can protect yourself with a traditional environment, at least not today
46:13
Maybe we need to go to some hardware, which is like firm
46:16
We need to see if that is for real. I'll give you a small example of what I'm concerned about
46:28
It's about the human brain. The human brain is made in a different way and is not so good
46:37
We memorize a lot of stuff, but in essence, what we are very good in is creating solutions
46:41
our soft skills we were made for create solutions and for taking risks
46:47
we were not made for memorizing a lot of stuff, we do it because that's how
46:52
we are teached to do but definitely in the future what will happen
46:57
in the future I'm saying in the next 5-10 years what we will see is that
47:02
machines gradually are going to take over more or less, they are going to do the
47:06
hard, what I call the hard core execution and also put you in a position that you are not going to memorize anything anymore because there's no way
47:15
you can have that processing power that a computer has. So what you need to understand is
47:21
and that's what we with BizMoney are doing, we are trying to create a new generation of
47:27
entrepreneurs that instead of being executioners and needing to have a lot of knowledge in all the
47:34
areas, they need to understand how it works and you need to make the adequate decisions
47:40
So what we say is that the micro-business owner of the future will be somebody that makes decisions like the Fortune 500 CEO
47:48
And that's how things are going to jump. And that's how quantum computing also is going to have a big role
47:56
But maybe Shamir could say something about that. Thank you. I think that was very interesting
48:04
um so you know cyber security and how do you cyber secure smart cities i think this is a very
48:11
hot topic everyone's concerned about cyber security especially because you know if you
48:17
think about smart cities literally a threat could enter a smart city infrastructure at any compromise
48:22
point right so the risk can grow from one system onto the next and one seemingly innocuous connected
48:30
device when hacked and injected with a malware could potentially open up an array of other
48:35
devices to penetrate into, causing a cascade of damage. Now, so that's one big concern
48:41
Everyone's connected today. Now, there's an entity called NIST, the National Institute of Science and Technology
48:47
They recently established an IoT-enabled smart cities framework to address issues related
48:53
to cybersecurity, data integration, and data sharing, for instance. but until we have some global standards a common global standard framework you know we need to kind
49:06
of basically follow some best practices in cyber security so there are five that you know i i kind
49:13
of always talk about one is about identity like literally protecting individual identities so
49:19
we're talking about identity management you know across connected systems now each connected piece
49:25
infrastructure may have different rules of standards for providing access some weaker than
49:29
the other by basically creating a way to sync the credentialing um you know we can eliminate those
49:36
weak points so cities can help protect their you know citizens identity information now blockchain
49:42
is a brilliant use case here so blockchain based identity management is a great use case
49:47
in this scenario the second one would be to literally secure the information at the source
49:54
each connected device generating data the moment it's plugged in and every second thereafter, right
50:01
So before a system goes live, the smart city managers, as I call it, must have an understanding of how much data is it going to be generated
50:10
How will that be collected and how is it going to be used? So that way we can have more secure and appropriate encryption being implemented at the outset
50:19
The third one would be to create something like, you know, on a need-to-know basis
50:25
So information literally should be on a need-to-know basis. Very few people in any organization need to know everything in a given system
50:33
So protocols and options for accessing can create those boundaries while still providing that openness and functionality, right
50:42
So the way we can ensure complete accountability, identity, and who has access to that information, we can ensure that they are authorized and we can go on that axis as well
50:57
The fourth one is about creating some level of policies. So we can call it like smart policies
51:04
So very often with IoT, the focus is literally on benefits. So no one really pays attention to the risks involved in using IoT devices
51:13
Now, creating a policy around IoT data privacy and data use can basically help prevent that misuse and guide employees or users in general towards cybersecurity
51:25
And the last one, the fifth one is about implementing an appropriate or even some sort of hefty deterrence
51:35
Now, we're living in a new world. You know, there's a lot of data being shared
51:39
So there should be some repercussions for cybercrime, you know, that are limited and, you know, very well defined
51:46
So like today, if you look at sanctions, fines, prison sentences, all of these need to be updated to reflect the consequences of rule breakers in this new world
51:56
So I think these are the five, you know, best practices that I would think about
52:01
let me just answer Antonio for the question and go back about what Shamir said about
52:11
the five practices and what is his point of view to answer your question Antonio
52:17
how we can secure Shamir he put some input but I can tell you after
52:23
20 plus years of experience in cyber security you cannot secure it 100 there no way to secure it there always you will try your best you will put all the policy procedures you will follow the best
52:40
practice and nest and you name it but at the end there will be always you will do the patching there
52:47
there will be always one vulnerability, one zero days where it will compromise your network
52:55
It will be always a human error which will compromise your network
53:02
through social engineering. Therefore, the awareness is one of the most important parts
53:08
in cybersecurity because at the end, your human are the human or the human factor
53:16
is the weakest links, weakest chain in the cybersecurity. You can implement the best technology you have
53:24
the best sensor at the end, small, nice email coming in, your employee click on it
53:33
and boom, you are already compromised the whole network. Therefore, to answer your question
53:38
we cannot have it up to minus 100%. There's always risk. I see it really
53:45
and feel it and live it since 20 plus years it's cat and mouse chase
53:52
you try to run but we try our best exactly we try our best
54:00
you can sleep if you do your best you can sleep better but
54:07
definitely one day we will come to sleep this night you never know
54:11
But to tell you something also, it's like a little bit, I have nothing at home, at my home, nothing smart, nothing, zero smart home
54:23
The only smart things I have, it's my phone. Because I know exactly if I want to implement all the systems and all this stuff, either I need to do it myself and to make sure that I'm patching all the IoT, which is impossible to do
54:40
actually I'm doing all the rules and everything to secure it myself and I know I don't have the
54:46
time to do it therefore I say okay which is not connected
54:51
to the internet it's more secure I'll keep it true and sometimes
54:56
no if you buy a device you don't really know the life cycle of the updates
55:03
that that device is going to receive the weakest like we are expecting there's a study I read
55:08
out from IDC, there will be over than 45 billion to 50 billion IoT devices connected to the
55:16
network in the next couple of years. Can you imagine this kind of attack surface we will
55:26
have with implementing AI, compromising these big numbers? What you can do? It is the power
55:35
of pot that you can really bring down everything with it. Because, again, unfortunately, in a lot of enterprises
55:47
and a lot of smart cities, they just implement the devices and they forgot that they have it
55:54
They don't have even proper inventory, that there's a camera there or there's an IoT device there
56:01
They don't have really, and they are outdated. compromised and you never know what's happened there. Who's playing in your
56:10
background? Therefore again to summarize to answer your question we cannot. We can
56:17
only try our best to maximize the security. Or what you think Jose or Shamia
56:27
I believe it's impossible to make it secure 100% more. Correct? Yeah, I mean, you could achieve a level of security, but always someone's going to figure out that one loophole, right
56:41
One backdoor. I mean, that's all. Which is why you always need to
56:48
Look, you're testing something in the firm. He found zero days. Nobody knows about it
56:53
The whole network is compromised. True. I also think that a lot of people don't know that the way it works, that it's not 100% the outcome
57:10
There is also always a small tiny percentage that that computer may have a wrong icon
57:16
it's it's based on almost on consensus close to 100% but you have a working
57:28
with a hundred percent secure so you're working basically accepting that the
57:35
trial error very tiny I think that something that is particularly important and go to one of the points that
57:52
already been answered is about educating people, making them aware of what they need to do
58:02
And in organizations, I think it's particularly important to de-education and establish ways
58:09
that people are also not scared. Because if you scare people about cybersecurity, people will be sometimes afraid of even working
58:20
or doing certain tasks. So I think it's particularly important to have a permanent element of educating employees
58:27
highlighting changes. It's almost like you need to keep an ongoing feed about training
58:34
and cyber awareness to whatever organization you are in. Sure. The awareness is the key, actually
58:42
It is the R and O in every organization because your employees
58:47
you don't know how to deal, how to really find out the phishing email
58:54
which is tricking him to click on the red, wrong URL. You cannot blame him
59:02
If you don't give him the right education and the right awareness, you cannot blame him for this
59:07
And every day you have a new employee, a new partner, someone else new that needs to onboard you
59:16
I find something very interesting that Siemens did a few years ago
59:20
where they were able to bring together a set of partners and customers
59:25
and they created a cyber trust where all these companies, they agree on a certain term that they need to do in their organizations
59:32
to create a kind of a cyber trust. I think this is a very interesting area where organizations need to create
59:40
a kind of an ecosystem of trust between themselves. That is in essence the only way you can secure 100% because it has been proven more than
59:54
once that if you look at the hardware today, you know, these
59:59
connections. We can protect it quite well with all the firewalls, etc
1:00:04
So it's very hard to penetrate within, let's say, from the back door
1:00:09
It's quite easy to penetrate from the front end still today if you don't have the right protocols
1:00:18
And definitely the biggest risk comes from inside, in the organization itself
1:00:22
I think it's like more than 90% of the security breaches always come from the company itself, from the inside
1:00:30
So that says a lot. Yeah, sure. So I think we are at the end of our event
1:00:41
I think it was a very interesting discussion. And thank you, Shamir, Jose, and Jit
1:00:48
And I hope you were out there watching us, were able to take something from our conversation
1:00:55
and if you want to reach us out on the social media channels, please feel free to do it
1:01:03
For me, it was a great pleasure to be here in this panel and look forward to further conversations
1:01:13
Thank you very much. Thank you, António. Thank you. Thank you, Brian
1:01:18
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you
1:01:51
Thank you
1:05:39
Thank you
1:06:39
Hello. Hello
1:07:00
That was a very, very interesting film that we produced. Really, really very ominous in terms of looking at what governments
1:07:08
businesses and people need to do in order to embrace the fourth industrial
1:07:15
revolution in particular technology we just heard a very interesting discussion on cybersecurity in particular with IOT devices the key takeaway from that is that the footprint of all the devices out there gets so large the footprint is so large that at the end of the day there will always be cyber security attacks
1:07:38
And therefore we all need to be very aware of that going forward
1:07:46
In terms of the contribution of Antonio Santos, who works at Atos, Shamir Thala at Glover
1:07:54
who works at Akubits and Agia, and Jose Garcia, Grasa, sorry, who's chairman of Bismoni Corp
1:08:07
Essentially, at the end of the day, they see the future. They see the real, real hardcore opportunities, but also the threats
1:08:19
And that's really, really important for us to take on board. I mean very very valuable insights. Now coming up next in the next seven minutes
1:08:31
will be another panel session which will be chaired by... I will the panel would be a great team of people. We have Peter Chun who's the
1:08:52
president of World Smart Cities Forum. Jaa Bokas, who's a global speaker and really focuses on mobile devices, your smartwatch
1:09:01
and all the mobility technology that is wearable at the end of the day
1:09:08
We've got Professor Yu Chong, who's the Associated Dean and International Chair of Business
1:09:13
and ytics. And, of course, we've got Linda Gertz, who's co-founder of EPV, DPM Data Corp., who was
1:09:20
a former president and CEO of Blockchain Chamber of Commerce and also an emerging tech thought
1:09:26
leader. And for some of you who don't know Linda, she's a very, very good golfer. So if you ever have
1:09:32
a chance to meet her this post-COVID, you need to take your golf clubs because I think she'll
1:09:37
teach you a few things or two. At the end of the, the smart cities, government, identity
1:09:45
health care, wellness, AI, privacy, data protection, and cybersecurity are very, very, very important
1:09:53
things to consider. If smart governments do implement identity, they have to be very careful
1:10:03
and understand is that who owns that data, who owns your health care data, your wellness
1:10:09
and it's very very important obviously we've talked about cyber security but at the end of
1:10:15
the day it's your data so self-sovereignty is very very very important self-sovereignty of data is
1:10:23
who owns the data very very interesting developments today and there are i think a
1:10:27
couple of um cases in the u.s against um from i think it's facebook and who basically own whatsapp
1:10:35
etc. is basically antitrust. It's essentially that their footprint is so huge that they are now
1:10:42
as we all know, beginning to have an impact on society and essentially using
1:10:48
AI to effectively tribalize or bifurcate society into various groups and actually
1:10:56
making change. But making change for good or making change for bad, this is a big ethical question
1:11:02
So as we move towards smart cities and smart governments, we ready to understand this incredible amount of power that will be handed to in the case of Facebook as we seen a large amount of data and that data is used and we are the commodity because we don we don pay
1:11:22
to use Facebook we don't pay to use WhatsApp so therefore we are being monetized by them we want
1:11:29
to actually change that we want to actually turn it around put it turn it around so that we own our
1:11:34
our own data and can monetize our data, which is very, very important, so that we aren't
1:11:41
the commodity, that we aren't in control of our data. And so the panel coming up will probably discuss a significant amount of this in terms of data
1:11:50
protection and, of course, cybersecurity, because if we're owning our own data, cybersecurity
1:11:55
is paramount. at the end of the day when you talk about healthcare
1:12:02
it's very much personal information so cyber security is really really really important
1:12:09
so Peter will talk a little bit about his World Smart Cities
1:12:14
Forum initiative and Peter has developed a very very interesting platform working out of New York
1:12:25
and he was locked down in New York, but most of his focus is on Asia, particularly out of Vietnam
1:12:32
And then you've got Professor Yu Chong, who's the Associate Dean and Chair of Business ytics
1:12:38
at Surrey University. Incredibly bright man. He's been working with the British government
1:12:45
for many years, advising them on various strategies, in particular to do with, obviously
1:12:51
technology and uh and the digitization of of societies and then of course linda who really is
1:12:59
an advocate an advocate of of really the ownership of data the data that should be owned by the
1:13:06
individual and not be used and of course utilization of uh of all the devices that we have and the data
1:13:14
that we have in those devices is really, really empowering the individual
1:13:22
in terms of their interaction with society. So we've got about a couple of minutes to go
1:13:29
Following on from the next panel session, we look forward to the future governments and cities
1:13:37
what roads to smart sustainable and accessible and inclusive societies we'll be joined by
1:13:45
a great panel of people we've got deborah rowe who will be the ceo who's the ceo and founder of the
1:13:50
rue global impact human potential and work she's a talk show host and co-host she's obviously doing
1:13:56
a much will do a much better job than i am then we've got my zuckerman who is the chief operations
1:14:02
officer of lumen she's based out in san francisco and she has really really been working on the
1:14:09
lots of initiatives to do with sustainability and circular economy and mobility in particular
1:14:15
i'm actually advising the one the agencies with united nations going forward and then we have
1:14:22
marco robinson who's a founder of naked technologies and he's a amazing man he's looking at sustainability
1:14:27
particularly to do with empowering the forgotten people in society in terms of uplifting and
1:14:34
bringing them into the economic system. Then we got Uriel Alvarado who's co-foundancy of Grupo
1:14:41
Bien Hora and Bien Fest. So looks like an exciting afternoon, two more sessions to go
1:14:49
we now have the next panel coming up in one minute smart cities smart governments
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