Up next in 10
The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Arindam Mitra - Ep. 34
0 views
Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Arindam Mitra for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on July 03, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Arindam Mitra - Crafting next-generation foundation models that are not only powerful and trustworthy but also customizable and efficient, catering to a diverse range of existing and emerging applications. Current research focuses on investigating ways to enhance training signals and related training techniques in order to enable smaller LLMs to develop advanced reasoning capabilities usually seen in Large Foundation Models. He is the lead researcher for the Orca project. His work has been integrated into Bing and Science Engine, the latter of which empowers scientists across multiple enterprises with cutting-edge AI products. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com/ #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
View Video Transcript
0:03
hello everyone and welcome back to
0:05
hello everyone and welcome back to
0:05
hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the cloud show today
0:08
another episode of the cloud show today
0:08
another episode of the cloud show today we're going to talk about a very
0:09
we're going to talk about a very
0:10
we're going to talk about a very important factor in the cloud it's not
0:12
important factor in the cloud it's not
0:12
important factor in the cloud it's not really in the cloud but it it pertains
0:14
really in the cloud but it it pertains
0:14
really in the cloud but it it pertains to the cloud so so much we're going to
0:16
to the cloud so so much we're going to
0:16
to the cloud so so much we're going to talk about devops uh and devops more so
0:20
talk about devops uh and devops more so
0:20
talk about devops uh and devops more so we're going to focus in on something
0:21
we're going to focus in on something
0:21
we're going to focus in on something called decentralized devops um very
0:24
called decentralized devops um very
0:24
called decentralized devops um very curious to hear what this is and how
0:26
curious to hear what this is and how
0:26
curious to hear what this is and how that works and why it's important and uh
0:29
that works and why it's important and uh
0:29
that works and why it's important and uh to do that to talk about this today we
0:31
to do that to talk about this today we
0:31
to do that to talk about this today we have an expert on the show a star as
0:34
have an expert on the show a star as
0:34
have an expert on the show a star as always and this time it's aritra thank
0:37
always and this time it's aritra thank
0:37
always and this time it's aritra thank you for joining
0:39
you for joining
0:39
you for joining [Music]
0:46
Miss well hello there hello Magnus it's
0:50
Miss well hello there hello Magnus it's
0:50
Miss well hello there hello Magnus it's good to see you yeah likewise likewise
0:54
good to see you yeah likewise likewise
0:54
good to see you yeah likewise likewise yeah it's nice to have you on this show
0:56
yeah it's nice to have you on this show
0:56
yeah it's nice to have you on this show and um so uh tell the audience first a
0:59
and um so uh tell the audience first a
0:59
and um so uh tell the audience first a little bit about you who are you and
1:01
little bit about you who are you and
1:01
little bit about you who are you and what do you do and so on okay so my name
1:04
what do you do and so on okay so my name
1:04
what do you do and so on okay so my name is Aranda Mitra I'm basically from India
1:07
is Aranda Mitra I'm basically from India
1:07
is Aranda Mitra I'm basically from India but I work in Switzerland since uh five
1:10
but I work in Switzerland since uh five
1:10
but I work in Switzerland since uh five years and I am the cloud services lead
1:13
years and I am the cloud services lead
1:13
years and I am the cloud services lead for axo Solutions it's a trading company
1:16
for axo Solutions it's a trading company
1:16
for axo Solutions it's a trading company and uh we are heavily using Azure devops
1:19
and uh we are heavily using Azure devops
1:19
and uh we are heavily using Azure devops and Azure as a cloud platform nice I am
1:22
and Azure as a cloud platform nice I am
1:22
and Azure as a cloud platform nice I am I have been like in know for a year now
1:25
I have been like in know for a year now
1:25
I have been like in know for a year now and Microsoft MVP and
1:27
and Microsoft MVP and
1:27
and Microsoft MVP and devops and and and uh this year you know
1:31
devops and and and uh this year you know
1:31
devops and and and uh this year you know I was also like you know got a little
1:33
I was also like you know got a little
1:33
I was also like you know got a little bit of a surprise from session ice
1:35
bit of a surprise from session ice
1:35
bit of a surprise from session ice calling me as the most active speaker
1:37
calling me as the most active speaker
1:37
calling me as the most active speaker for 2023 so very
1:40
for 2023 so very
1:40
for 2023 so very good and I am a very Avid traveler so so
1:44
good and I am a very Avid traveler so so
1:44
good and I am a very Avid traveler so so far I have traveled uh 25 countries till
1:47
far I have traveled uh 25 countries till
1:47
far I have traveled uh 25 countries till late and and you know just to disconnect
1:51
late and and you know just to disconnect
1:51
late and and you know just to disconnect from Azure and from the day to day
1:53
from Azure and from the day to day
1:53
from Azure and from the day to day mundane uh activities I love to jog I
1:55
mundane uh activities I love to jog I
1:55
mundane uh activities I love to jog I love to run and I do participate in half
1:58
love to run and I do participate in half
1:58
love to run and I do participate in half marathons
2:00
marathons
2:00
marathons wow that's impressive I I always say
2:02
wow that's impressive I I always say
2:02
wow that's impressive I I always say that I'm impressed by people who run and
2:04
that I'm impressed by people who run and
2:04
that I'm impressed by people who run and and the other things as well about you
2:05
and the other things as well about you
2:05
and the other things as well about you of course but but in in terms of running
2:08
of course but but in in terms of running
2:08
of course but but in in terms of running I I just can't get my head around it I I
2:10
I I just can't get my head around it I I
2:10
I I just can't get my head around it I I don't enjoy it but you I guess do yeah
2:13
don't enjoy it but you I guess do yeah
2:13
don't enjoy it but you I guess do yeah it's because you know the day-to-day
2:15
it's because you know the day-to-day
2:15
it's because you know the day-to-day things in in Cloud you know Magnus that
2:17
things in in Cloud you know Magnus that
2:17
things in in Cloud you know Magnus that how it's it's a learning curve you
2:20
how it's it's a learning curve you
2:20
how it's it's a learning curve you nobody at least you know I I I never
2:22
nobody at least you know I I I never
2:22
nobody at least you know I I I never call myself as an expert I say that and
2:24
call myself as an expert I say that and
2:24
call myself as an expert I say that and know every day it's it's it's a it's a
2:26
know every day it's it's it's a it's a
2:26
know every day it's it's it's a it's a journey it's a learning Journey
2:27
journey it's a learning Journey
2:27
journey it's a learning Journey something it's always something new
2:30
something it's always something new
2:30
something it's always something new you'll find in Azure in devops and
2:31
you'll find in Azure in devops and
2:31
you'll find in Azure in devops and everything oh my gosh so much I I had I
2:35
everything oh my gosh so much I I had I
2:35
everything oh my gosh so much I I had I had an interesting conversation today
2:36
had an interesting conversation today
2:36
had an interesting conversation today about um trying to run and I'm not
2:38
about um trying to run and I'm not
2:38
about um trying to run and I'm not running devops I was trying to run a
2:40
running devops I was trying to run a
2:40
running devops I was trying to run a GitHub workflows and let's not get into
2:42
GitHub workflows and let's not get into
2:42
GitHub workflows and let's not get into that but uh apparently I was not able to
2:45
that but uh apparently I was not able to
2:45
that but uh apparently I was not able to uh sign into entra I was easy easily
2:48
uh sign into entra I was easy easily
2:48
uh sign into entra I was easy easily able to sign into Asher but entra gave
2:50
able to sign into Asher but entra gave
2:50
able to sign into Asher but entra gave me problems anyway different story sorry
2:53
me problems anyway different story sorry
2:53
me problems anyway different story sorry this is about you no all good man happy
2:56
this is about you no all good man happy
2:56
this is about you no all good man happy to happy to hear all the
2:58
to happy to hear all the
2:58
to happy to hear all the experiences and running running kind of
3:00
experiences and running running kind of
3:00
experiences and running running kind of a thing is is how I say it's a
3:03
a thing is is how I say it's a
3:03
a thing is is how I say it's a disconnect you just put your headphone
3:04
disconnect you just put your headphone
3:05
disconnect you just put your headphone loud wonderful simply run you simply
3:07
loud wonderful simply run you simply
3:07
loud wonderful simply run you simply that's great and that's great I wish I
3:09
that's great and that's great I wish I
3:09
that's great and that's great I wish I could do that all right anyway um on to
3:12
could do that all right anyway um on to
3:12
could do that all right anyway um on to the topic of today we were going to talk
3:14
the topic of today we were going to talk
3:14
the topic of today we were going to talk about devops and I said let's talk about
3:16
about devops and I said let's talk about
3:16
about devops and I said let's talk about devops and you're like yes let's talk
3:17
devops and you're like yes let's talk
3:17
devops and you're like yes let's talk about decentralize the devops and I'm
3:19
about decentralize the devops and I'm
3:19
about decentralize the devops and I'm like decentralized devops what do you
3:22
like decentralized devops what do you
3:22
like decentralized devops what do you mean so um you know when when any of the
3:26
mean so um you know when when any of the
3:26
mean so um you know when when any of the uh any company starts uh their Cloud
3:28
uh any company starts uh their Cloud
3:28
uh any company starts uh their Cloud Journey it's it's always like like you
3:30
Journey it's it's always like like you
3:30
Journey it's it's always like like you know there is always a trans transition
3:32
know there is always a trans transition
3:32
know there is always a trans transition because you know there's always like
3:34
because you know there's always like
3:34
because you know there's always like every company has a data center and then
3:36
every company has a data center and then
3:36
every company has a data center and then you know they slowly slowly try to
3:38
you know they slowly slowly try to
3:38
you know they slowly slowly try to uplift everything from not only from the
3:40
uplift everything from not only from the
3:40
uplift everything from not only from the organizational point of view but also
3:42
organizational point of view but also
3:42
organizational point of view but also from technology point of view they try
3:44
from technology point of view they try
3:44
from technology point of view they try to go to and try to make Cloud run and
3:47
to go to and try to make Cloud run and
3:47
to go to and try to make Cloud run and those are basically data center
3:49
those are basically data center
3:49
those are basically data center Engineers who transition them or or
3:51
Engineers who transition them or or
3:51
Engineers who transition them or or maybe you know somebody who's starting
3:53
maybe you know somebody who's starting
3:53
maybe you know somebody who's starting their career all together in Cloud but
3:55
their career all together in Cloud but
3:55
their career all together in Cloud but no matter it is a transition now when
3:58
no matter it is a transition now when
3:58
no matter it is a transition now when they transition it's it's
4:00
they transition it's it's
4:00
they transition it's it's the way of working you know so you are
4:02
the way of working you know so you are
4:02
the way of working you know so you are going to Cloud but the way of working is
4:04
going to Cloud but the way of working is
4:04
going to Cloud but the way of working is still a data center
4:06
still a data center
4:07
still a data center mindset right right it's it's still a
4:09
mindset right right it's it's still a
4:09
mindset right right it's it's still a data center mindset because you cannot
4:12
data center mindset because you cannot
4:12
data center mindset because you cannot it's it's not a switch that you can just
4:13
it's it's not a switch that you can just
4:13
it's it's not a switch that you can just flip in it's not because you're years
4:16
flip in it's not because you're years
4:16
flip in it's not because you're years working in a in a data yeah and then all
4:19
working in a in a data yeah and then all
4:19
working in a in a data yeah and then all of a sudden the organization says hey we
4:21
of a sudden the organization says hey we
4:21
of a sudden the organization says hey we are going to cloud and then yeah and
4:23
are going to cloud and then yeah and
4:23
are going to cloud and then yeah and that's and that to be fair that's what
4:24
that's and that to be fair that's what
4:24
that's and that to be fair that's what they know right they know how to do it
4:27
they know right they know how to do it
4:27
they know right they know how to do it they've known that for a long long time
4:29
they've known that for a long long time
4:29
they've known that for a long long time and there's nothing wrong with knowing
4:31
and there's nothing wrong with knowing
4:31
and there's nothing wrong with knowing how to do it it's just that uh applying
4:34
how to do it it's just that uh applying
4:34
how to do it it's just that uh applying the same mindset to the cloud may not be
4:37
the same mindset to the cloud may not be
4:37
the same mindset to the cloud may not be the optimal solution you agree yeah I do
4:40
the optimal solution you agree yeah I do
4:40
the optimal solution you agree yeah I do I do and then what happens is that they
4:43
I do and then what happens is that they
4:43
I do and then what happens is that they fall into the same mundane activity that
4:46
fall into the same mundane activity that
4:46
fall into the same mundane activity that okay if you are going to Cloud then it
4:48
okay if you are going to Cloud then it
4:48
okay if you are going to Cloud then it means that you know there will be a a
4:51
means that you know there will be a a
4:51
means that you know there will be a a set of uh infrastructure Engineers who
4:53
set of uh infrastructure Engineers who
4:53
set of uh infrastructure Engineers who are going to build the
4:55
are going to build the
4:55
are going to build the infrastructure and you know and then you
4:57
infrastructure and you know and then you
4:57
infrastructure and you know and then you know they will be setting all the guard
5:00
know they will be setting all the guard
5:00
know they will be setting all the guard rails and everything before an
5:01
rails and everything before an
5:01
rails and everything before an application guy can come in and start
5:03
application guy can come in and start
5:03
application guy can come in and start doing
5:04
doing
5:04
doing something to me this is not
5:06
something to me this is not
5:07
something to me this is not cloudification this is something like
5:09
cloudification this is something like
5:09
cloudification this is something like this is something like you know you are
5:10
this is something like you know you are
5:11
this is something like you know you are asking everybody to go to Cloud because
5:13
asking everybody to go to Cloud because
5:13
asking everybody to go to Cloud because you have the flexibility to do
5:15
you have the flexibility to do
5:15
you have the flexibility to do everything in a very very small span of
5:17
everything in a very very small span of
5:17
everything in a very very small span of time but then you know you have this
5:18
time but then you know you have this
5:18
time but then you know you have this data center mindset and which you're
5:20
data center mindset and which you're
5:20
data center mindset and which you're carrying to the cloud and then you are
5:23
carrying to the cloud and then you are
5:23
carrying to the cloud and then you are instead of becoming an enabler you
5:25
instead of becoming an enabler you
5:25
instead of becoming an enabler you become a blocker yeah so I I love that I
5:28
become a blocker yeah so I I love that I
5:28
become a blocker yeah so I I love that I love that thinking it's it's brilliant I
5:30
love that thinking it's it's brilliant I
5:30
love that thinking it's it's brilliant I agree I couldn't agree more um so when
5:34
agree I couldn't agree more um so when
5:34
agree I couldn't agree more um so when it comes to Azure migrate let's just
5:36
it comes to Azure migrate let's just
5:36
it comes to Azure migrate let's just have a little bit fun with that Azure
5:37
have a little bit fun with that Azure
5:37
have a little bit fun with that Azure migrate the whole migration Story the
5:39
migrate the whole migration Story the
5:39
migrate the whole migration Story the whole migration business yes um do you
5:43
whole migration business yes um do you
5:43
whole migration business yes um do you like it or don't like it is it is this a
5:45
like it or don't like it is it is this a
5:45
like it or don't like it is it is this a good or a bad thing so uh aure migrant
5:48
good or a bad thing so uh aure migrant
5:48
good or a bad thing so uh aure migrant you know it's it's good as long as
5:50
you know it's it's good as long as
5:50
you know it's it's good as long as you're doing an assessment uh where your
5:53
you're doing an assessment uh where your
5:53
you're doing an assessment uh where your system is a very very a zyo system like
5:57
system is a very very a zyo system like
5:57
system is a very very a zyo system like it doesn't have interface connectivity
5:59
it doesn't have interface connectivity
5:59
it doesn't have interface connectivity to multiple host because as soon as it
6:02
to multiple host because as soon as it
6:02
to multiple host because as soon as it has then you canot use migrate no matter
6:05
has then you canot use migrate no matter
6:05
has then you canot use migrate no matter if the assessment report is saying that
6:07
if the assessment report is saying that
6:07
if the assessment report is saying that hey this is a low hanging fruit and you
6:09
hey this is a low hanging fruit and you
6:09
hey this is a low hanging fruit and you can migrate it but you you as a as a
6:12
can migrate it but you you as a as a
6:12
can migrate it but you you as a as a potential like you know the owner you
6:14
potential like you know the owner you
6:14
potential like you know the owner you know that this system is now connected
6:16
know that this system is now connected
6:16
know that this system is now connected to 10 different VMS and in order to
6:19
to 10 different VMS and in order to
6:19
to 10 different VMS and in order to migrate that I have to also think about
6:20
migrate that I have to also think about
6:21
migrate that I have to also think about that so maybe aure migrate uh is a good
6:24
that so maybe aure migrate uh is a good
6:24
that so maybe aure migrate uh is a good assessment tool of course but I would
6:26
assessment tool of course but I would
6:26
assessment tool of course but I would still say that only for Standalone zyo
6:28
still say that only for Standalone zyo
6:29
still say that only for Standalone zyo machines and for the commission critical
6:30
machines and for the commission critical
6:30
machines and for the commission critical systems Fair that's a that's a fair I
6:33
systems Fair that's a that's a fair I
6:33
systems Fair that's a that's a fair I like I like your take on that all right
6:35
like I like your take on that all right
6:35
like I like your take on that all right so back to uh decentralized devops or or
6:38
so back to uh decentralized devops or or
6:38
so back to uh decentralized devops or or devops here you're on this journey now
6:40
devops here you're on this journey now
6:40
devops here you're on this journey now the company is on a journey what happens
6:42
the company is on a journey what happens
6:42
the company is on a journey what happens the company has a journey and then you
6:43
the company has a journey and then you
6:43
the company has a journey and then you know we go there so we we sooner or
6:46
know we go there so we we sooner or
6:46
know we go there so we we sooner or later start to realize that okay you
6:48
later start to realize that okay you
6:48
later start to realize that okay you know we have to build the infrastructure
6:50
know we have to build the infrastructure
6:50
know we have to build the infrastructure as a code then you know we have to
6:52
as a code then you know we have to
6:52
as a code then you know we have to deploy it and we have to we have to put
6:55
deploy it and we have to we have to put
6:55
deploy it and we have to we have to put all those guard rails and then what
6:57
all those guard rails and then what
6:57
all those guard rails and then what happens is the developer is coming and
6:59
happens is the developer is coming and
6:59
happens is the developer is coming and then doing by the time they come it's
7:01
then doing by the time they come it's
7:01
then doing by the time they come it's already like you know the project has
7:02
already like you know the project has
7:02
already like you know the project has started but maybe it's like 15 days 30
7:05
started but maybe it's like 15 days 30
7:05
started but maybe it's like 15 days 30 days depending upon how robust is your
7:07
days depending upon how robust is your
7:07
days depending upon how robust is your infrastructure framework right now the
7:10
infrastructure framework right now the
7:10
infrastructure framework right now the decentralized devops it's is something
7:13
decentralized devops it's is something
7:13
decentralized devops it's is something like you know you are basically moving
7:15
like you know you are basically moving
7:15
like you know you are basically moving your and your team from the critical
7:18
your and your team from the critical
7:18
your and your team from the critical project delivery path and you are
7:20
project delivery path and you are
7:20
project delivery path and you are becoming an enabler which means that you
7:22
becoming an enabler which means that you
7:22
becoming an enabler which means that you are having an automation framework with
7:25
are having an automation framework with
7:25
are having an automation framework with the with the guard rails all
7:27
the with the guard rails all
7:27
the with the guard rails all infrastructure code all devops pipeline
7:29
infrastructure code all devops pipeline
7:29
infrastructure code all devops pipeline and everything
7:31
and everything
7:31
and everything but you are not doing yourself but you
7:34
but you are not doing yourself but you
7:34
but you are not doing yourself but you are asking the developer to build and
7:37
are asking the developer to build and
7:37
are asking the developer to build and run so it means that you build you
7:40
run so it means that you build you
7:40
run so it means that you build you run which means that the infrastructure
7:43
run which means that the infrastructure
7:43
run which means that the infrastructure as a code is there the organizational
7:46
as a code is there the organizational
7:46
as a code is there the organizational guard rails are there the security guard
7:48
guard rails are there the security guard
7:48
guard rails are there the security guard rails are there but you are have built a
7:50
rails are there but you are have built a
7:50
rails are there but you are have built a framework and you are asking the
7:52
framework and you are asking the
7:52
framework and you are asking the developers that hey you want to do this
7:54
developers that hey you want to do this
7:54
developers that hey you want to do this you need a web app in a database okay go
7:56
you need a web app in a database okay go
7:56
you need a web app in a database okay go here click click click click and you get
7:58
here click click click click and you get
7:58
here click click click click and you get the whole framework and everything as
7:59
the whole framework and everything as
7:59
the whole framework and everything as infrastructure as a code but he is not
8:02
infrastructure as a code but he is not
8:02
infrastructure as a code but he is not dependent on a ploud platform engineer
8:05
dependent on a ploud platform engineer
8:05
dependent on a ploud platform engineer that unless and until he is deploying
8:07
that unless and until he is deploying
8:07
that unless and until he is deploying infrastructure he cannot do anything
8:09
infrastructure he cannot do anything
8:09
infrastructure he cannot do anything that is a summary and a very very and a
8:12
that is a summary and a very very and a
8:12
that is a summary and a very very and a clean and a precise way of explaining
8:14
clean and a precise way of explaining
8:14
clean and a precise way of explaining the decentralized devs right because
8:17
the decentralized devs right because
8:17
the decentralized devs right because there is there is a sort of a disconnect
8:19
there is there is a sort of a disconnect
8:19
there is there is a sort of a disconnect here right when when when we were
8:21
here right when when when we were
8:21
here right when when when we were running applications in before Cloud on
8:24
running applications in before Cloud on
8:24
running applications in before Cloud on the on the ground yes um the application
8:27
the on the ground yes um the application
8:27
the on the ground yes um the application developer
8:30
developer
8:30
developer if if we want to put it in a point like
8:32
if if we want to put it in a point like
8:32
if if we want to put it in a point like they didn't care where the application
8:34
they didn't care where the application
8:34
they didn't care where the application run just like here's my application you
8:36
run just like here's my application you
8:36
run just like here's my application you run it somewhere whatever and and see if
8:39
run it somewhere whatever and and see if
8:39
run it somewhere whatever and and see if it works and now we are using Cloud
8:42
it works and now we are using Cloud
8:42
it works and now we are using Cloud resources
8:43
resources
8:43
resources instead that doesn't automatically mean
8:45
instead that doesn't automatically mean
8:46
instead that doesn't automatically mean that the developers now care where the
8:48
that the developers now care where the
8:48
that the developers now care where the application runs right they didn't care
8:51
application runs right they didn't care
8:51
application runs right they didn't care before why would they care now yeah
8:53
before why would they care now yeah
8:53
before why would they care now yeah exactly and and the thing is that you
8:55
exactly and and the thing is that you
8:55
exactly and and the thing is that you know uh when it comes to Cloud you know
8:57
know uh when it comes to Cloud you know
8:57
know uh when it comes to Cloud you know it it is always about like the the way
8:59
it it is always about like the the way
8:59
it it is always about like the the way we do it is like you it's always SAS
9:01
we do it is like you it's always SAS
9:01
we do it is like you it's always SAS first and then platform as a service and
9:03
first and then platform as a service and
9:03
first and then platform as a service and then infrastructure as a service like we
9:04
then infrastructure as a service like we
9:05
then infrastructure as a service like we don't believe that you know spinning up
9:07
don't believe that you know spinning up
9:07
don't believe that you know spinning up a virtual machine is is what is
9:09
a virtual machine is is what is
9:09
a virtual machine is is what is cloudification no it's it's not because
9:11
cloudification no it's it's not because
9:11
cloudification no it's it's not because unless and until you are using the
9:13
unless and until you are using the
9:13
unless and until you are using the platform as a service you know you not
9:15
platform as a service you know you not
9:15
platform as a service you know you not modernizing your application that's
9:17
modernizing your application that's
9:17
modernizing your application that's right that's that's the bottom line so
9:20
right that's that's the bottom line so
9:20
right that's that's the bottom line so when it comes to platform as a service
9:22
when it comes to platform as a service
9:22
when it comes to platform as a service and everything then uh I mean like why
9:24
and everything then uh I mean like why
9:24
and everything then uh I mean like why not to give the developers the that that
9:26
not to give the developers the that that
9:26
not to give the developers the that that whole ability because at the end
9:30
whole ability because at the end
9:30
whole ability because at the end everything is virtual machines in m in
9:32
everything is virtual machines in m in
9:32
everything is virtual machines in m in Microsoft data center
9:34
Microsoft data center
9:34
Microsoft data center yes right there's no rocket signs out
9:37
yes right there's no rocket signs out
9:37
yes right there's no rocket signs out there so it's just an abstraction which
9:39
there so it's just an abstraction which
9:39
there so it's just an abstraction which Microsoft has created and given given it
9:43
Microsoft has created and given given it
9:43
Microsoft has created and given given it to us we are working on abstraction
9:45
to us we are working on abstraction
9:45
to us we are working on abstraction layer right yeah why why would a why
9:48
layer right yeah why why would a why
9:48
layer right yeah why why would a why would an application developer or an
9:50
would an application developer or an
9:50
would an application developer or an application owner if you will um need to
9:54
application owner if you will um need to
9:54
application owner if you will um need to worry about patching and maintaining a
9:56
worry about patching and maintaining a
9:56
worry about patching and maintaining a VM operating system that's not what I
9:58
VM operating system that's not what I
9:58
VM operating system that's not what I need I need place to run my application
10:00
need I need place to run my application
10:00
need I need place to run my application I don't care about anything else than
10:02
I don't care about anything else than
10:02
I don't care about anything else than that exactly exactly the point but with
10:05
that exactly exactly the point but with
10:05
that exactly exactly the point but with that flexibility if you are giving
10:07
that flexibility if you are giving
10:07
that flexibility if you are giving giving a good framework that you okay
10:09
giving a good framework that you okay
10:09
giving a good framework that you okay you know whenever they need they can
10:10
you know whenever they need they can
10:10
you know whenever they need they can deploy on their own test it if they want
10:13
deploy on their own test it if they want
10:13
deploy on their own test it if they want to keep it remove it
10:15
to keep it remove it
10:15
to keep it remove it because we are giving the flexibility of
10:18
because we are giving the flexibility of
10:18
because we are giving the flexibility of deploying the infrastructure to the
10:21
deploying the infrastructure to the
10:21
deploying the infrastructure to the developers or the T
10:24
developers or the T
10:24
developers or the T but so tell me tell me this shouldn't
10:26
but so tell me tell me this shouldn't
10:26
but so tell me tell me this shouldn't shouldn't there be some sort of measure
10:28
shouldn't there be some sort of measure
10:28
shouldn't there be some sort of measure of of um I don't know self-service here
10:31
of of um I don't know self-service here
10:31
of of um I don't know self-service here so that I I as an application developer
10:34
so that I I as an application developer
10:34
so that I I as an application developer I can I can just say I need a an
10:36
I can I can just say I need a an
10:36
I can I can just say I need a an application host make sure that that
10:39
application host make sure that that
10:39
application host make sure that that exists exactly exactly the thing so the
10:43
exists exactly exactly the thing so the
10:43
exists exactly exactly the thing so the decentral devops is complimenting uh the
10:46
decentral devops is complimenting uh the
10:46
decentral devops is complimenting uh the self-
10:47
self-
10:47
self- service it is complimenting self-service
10:50
service it is complimenting self-service
10:50
service it is complimenting self-service because if you don't have self-service
10:51
because if you don't have self-service
10:51
because if you don't have self-service framework you know you cannot bring the
10:53
framework you know you cannot bring the
10:53
framework you know you cannot bring the decentralized develops principle into
10:55
decentralized develops principle into
10:55
decentralized develops principle into your organization because if if if you
10:58
your organization because if if if you
10:58
your organization because if if if you want developers to do something then you
10:59
want developers to do something then you
10:59
want developers to do something then you need that platform correct if you don't
11:02
need that platform correct if you don't
11:02
need that platform correct if you don't have that platform then it's very
11:04
have that platform then it's very
11:04
have that platform then it's very difficult and now with the self-service
11:07
difficult and now with the self-service
11:07
difficult and now with the self-service what we have is a is a one in our
11:09
what we have is a is a one in our
11:09
what we have is a is a one in our organization how we are developing is we
11:12
organization how we are developing is we
11:12
organization how we are developing is we are on one side saying that we have a
11:14
are on one side saying that we have a
11:14
are on one side saying that we have a self service with a code heavy
11:18
self service with a code heavy
11:18
self service with a code heavy framework something somebody can
11:21
framework something somebody can
11:21
framework something somebody can contribute to a little bit of a
11:22
contribute to a little bit of a
11:22
contribute to a little bit of a terraform and little bit of a Azure
11:24
terraform and little bit of a Azure
11:24
terraform and little bit of a Azure devops pipeline but the engineering is
11:26
devops pipeline but the engineering is
11:26
devops pipeline but the engineering is all in my back end or there is another
11:29
all in my back end or there is another
11:29
all in my back end or there is another one layer that if an application
11:32
one layer that if an application
11:32
one layer that if an application developer says that hey I don't want to
11:33
developer says that hey I don't want to
11:33
developer says that hey I don't want to use a code heavy do you have any other
11:35
use a code heavy do you have any other
11:35
use a code heavy do you have any other options yes we do have and that is what
11:37
options yes we do have and that is what
11:38
options yes we do have and that is what we as we are call internal developer
11:40
we as we are call internal developer
11:40
we as we are call internal developer portal so the code heavy part becomes
11:43
portal so the code heavy part becomes
11:43
portal so the code heavy part becomes your devops and your internal developer
11:46
your devops and your internal developer
11:46
your devops and your internal developer portal becomes a click Ops because then
11:49
portal becomes a click Ops because then
11:49
portal becomes a click Ops because then clicking it and you're deploying
11:50
clicking it and you're deploying
11:50
clicking it and you're deploying infrastructure but here on the code
11:52
infrastructure but here on the code
11:52
infrastructure but here on the code heavy side you're writing a little bit
11:54
heavy side you're writing a little bit
11:54
heavy side you're writing a little bit of a code contributing and then
11:55
of a code contributing and then
11:55
of a code contributing and then deploying infrastructure that's
11:57
deploying infrastructure that's
11:57
deploying infrastructure that's interesting because honestly I I would
12:00
interesting because honestly I I would
12:00
interesting because honestly I I would go for and and I urge everyone to to uh
12:03
go for and and I urge everyone to to uh
12:03
go for and and I urge everyone to to uh try to migrate the applications over to
12:06
try to migrate the applications over to
12:06
try to migrate the applications over to a platform service like an app service
12:07
a platform service like an app service
12:07
a platform service like an app service or whatever is appropriate sometimes the
12:10
or whatever is appropriate sometimes the
12:10
or whatever is appropriate sometimes the answer is a virtual machine for you know
12:13
answer is a virtual machine for you know
12:13
answer is a virtual machine for you know for reason because reason some some
12:15
for reason because reason some some
12:15
for reason because reason some some reason whatever the application doesn't
12:18
reason whatever the application doesn't
12:18
reason whatever the application doesn't you know it's not it it needs something
12:19
you know it's not it it needs something
12:20
you know it's not it it needs something from Windows or or something it has a
12:22
from Windows or or something it has a
12:22
from Windows or or something it has a dependency something old weird that
12:25
dependency something old weird that
12:25
dependency something old weird that we're not going to we're not going to
12:26
we're not going to we're not going to
12:27
we're not going to we're not going to invest the time and money to to change
12:28
invest the time and money to to change
12:28
invest the time and money to to change the code and and make that application
12:30
the code and and make that application
12:30
the code and and make that application run on a platform service it was never
12:33
run on a platform service it was never
12:33
run on a platform service it was never built for this um so sometimes the
12:35
built for this um so sometimes the
12:35
built for this um so sometimes the answer is a VM of course but uh of
12:38
answer is a VM of course but uh of
12:38
answer is a VM of course but uh of course obviously as responsible
12:40
course obviously as responsible
12:40
course obviously as responsible Architects uh we need to uh Safeguard
12:44
Architects uh we need to uh Safeguard
12:44
Architects uh we need to uh Safeguard around that so that we don't allow
12:45
around that so that we don't allow
12:45
around that so that we don't allow everyone to just migrate the
12:47
everyone to just migrate the
12:47
everyone to just migrate the applications uh with the servers you
12:50
applications uh with the servers you
12:50
applications uh with the servers you know just VM relocation um that's not
12:54
know just VM relocation um that's not
12:54
know just VM relocation um that's not what we want right yeah so I mean like
12:58
what we want right yeah so I mean like
12:58
what we want right yeah so I mean like it's nothing har like you know if your
13:00
it's nothing har like you know if your
13:00
it's nothing har like you know if your application is using a virtual machine
13:02
application is using a virtual machine
13:02
application is using a virtual machine or something you know but that
13:03
or something you know but that
13:03
or something you know but that completely depends upon the nature of
13:05
completely depends upon the nature of
13:05
completely depends upon the nature of the application if it is a like you know
13:07
the application if it is a like you know
13:07
the application if it is a like you know an application which is like using a
13:09
an application which is like using a
13:09
an application which is like using a framework you know which is like 15
13:11
framework you know which is like 15
13:11
framework you know which is like 15 years old and it is still doing some
13:13
years old and it is still doing some
13:13
years old and it is still doing some kind of a value add to the business yeah
13:16
kind of a value add to the business yeah
13:16
kind of a value add to the business yeah I mean like we have no saying on that
13:17
I mean like we have no saying on that
13:17
I mean like we have no saying on that but I'm saying that just just because
13:20
but I'm saying that just just because
13:20
but I'm saying that just just because you're using VM it doesn't mean that you
13:22
you're using VM it doesn't mean that you
13:22
you're using VM it doesn't mean that you know you cannot be in a in a
13:24
know you cannot be in a in a
13:24
know you cannot be in a in a self-service mode so when we have
13:26
self-service mode so when we have
13:26
self-service mode so when we have self-service in this way um what um
13:30
self-service in this way um what um
13:30
self-service in this way um what um you're saying that if I understood you
13:32
you're saying that if I understood you
13:32
you're saying that if I understood you correct as an application developer I
13:35
correct as an application developer I
13:35
correct as an application developer I can go to a self-service portal and I
13:37
can go to a self-service portal and I
13:37
can go to a self-service portal and I can say may I have this infrastructure
13:39
can say may I have this infrastructure
13:39
can say may I have this infrastructure thing happen for me so that I can just
13:41
thing happen for me so that I can just
13:41
thing happen for me so that I can just use it that's the self-service part what
13:44
use it that's the self-service part what
13:44
use it that's the self-service part what what what's that is that the problem
13:46
what what's that is that the problem
13:46
what what's that is that the problem that we are solving what what do we gain
13:48
that we are solving what what do we gain
13:48
that we are solving what what do we gain here so what what you gain here is that
13:51
here so what what you gain here is that
13:51
here so what what you gain here is that you know there's a whole life cycle so
13:53
you know there's a whole life cycle so
13:53
you know there's a whole life cycle so this is only a like a very very small
13:56
this is only a like a very very small
13:56
this is only a like a very very small part which you're solving but when like
13:58
part which you're solving but when like
13:58
part which you're solving but when like an a hybrid Network you know when in a
14:00
an a hybrid Network you know when in a
14:00
an a hybrid Network you know when in a hybrid setup that you know you have some
14:02
hybrid setup that you know you have some
14:02
hybrid setup that you know you have some workloads in cloud and some workloads in
14:04
workloads in cloud and some workloads in
14:04
workloads in cloud and some workloads in in data center which is normally the
14:05
in data center which is normally the
14:05
in data center which is normally the case in every organization at the moment
14:08
case in every organization at the moment
14:08
case in every organization at the moment right um there you know the journey
14:10
right um there you know the journey
14:10
right um there you know the journey starts from ordering the subscription
14:13
starts from ordering the subscription
14:13
starts from ordering the subscription once you get the subscription then you
14:15
once you get the subscription then you
14:15
once you get the subscription then you know you have to deploy the resources
14:18
know you have to deploy the resources
14:18
know you have to deploy the resources once you deploy the resources then you
14:19
once you deploy the resources then you
14:19
once you deploy the resources then you know since it's a hybrid connectivity
14:21
know since it's a hybrid connectivity
14:21
know since it's a hybrid connectivity you will try to reach those services
14:23
you will try to reach those services
14:23
you will try to reach those services from an on-prem system which means that
14:26
from an on-prem system which means that
14:26
from an on-prem system which means that you might require a firewall uh request
14:29
you might require a firewall uh request
14:29
you might require a firewall uh request or you might require a DNS request after
14:32
or you might require a DNS request after
14:32
or you might require a DNS request after all these things have been done when you
14:33
all these things have been done when you
14:33
all these things have been done when you are trying to deploy uh like you know
14:35
are trying to deploy uh like you know
14:35
are trying to deploy uh like you know when you're deploying the resources in
14:36
when you're deploying the resources in
14:36
when you're deploying the resources in Cloud it might be you know some of the
14:40
Cloud it might be you know some of the
14:40
Cloud it might be you know some of the Azure policies which are being governed
14:41
Azure policies which are being governed
14:41
Azure policies which are being governed from the management group that might be
14:43
from the management group that might be
14:43
from the management group that might be blocking so you have to call out
14:45
blocking so you have to call out
14:45
blocking so you have to call out security exceptions after you go there
14:48
security exceptions after you go there
14:48
security exceptions after you go there then probably you know you have you are
14:50
then probably you know you have you are
14:50
then probably you know you have you are in a way where you are actually ready
14:52
in a way where you are actually ready
14:52
in a way where you are actually ready for go live but before you go live you
14:55
for go live but before you go live you
14:55
for go live but before you go live you might be having a cloud service provider
14:57
might be having a cloud service provider
14:57
might be having a cloud service provider who is going to set up the incident
14:59
who is going to set up the incident
14:59
who is going to set up the incident management monitoring support and all
15:00
management monitoring support and all
15:00
management monitoring support and all kind of things now now the concept of
15:03
kind of things now now the concept of
15:03
kind of things now now the concept of decentralized devops is that from the
15:06
decentralized devops is that from the
15:06
decentralized devops is that from the from the moment you get the subscription
15:08
from the moment you get the subscription
15:08
from the moment you get the subscription to the moment you are onboarding your
15:10
to the moment you are onboarding your
15:10
to the moment you are onboarding your application to a cloud service provider
15:12
application to a cloud service provider
15:12
application to a cloud service provider for Incident Management that whole cycle
15:15
for Incident Management that whole cycle
15:15
for Incident Management that whole cycle if you are able to make it
15:17
if you are able to make it
15:17
if you are able to make it self-service this is what you are
15:18
self-service this is what you are
15:18
self-service this is what you are achieving as a part of the decentralized
15:21
achieving as a part of the decentralized
15:21
achieving as a part of the decentralized devops which means that you are you are
15:23
devops which means that you are you are
15:23
devops which means that you are you are doing the whole journey in a way where
15:26
doing the whole journey in a way where
15:26
doing the whole journey in a way where you are not becoming a b blocker but
15:29
you are not becoming a b blocker but
15:29
you are not becoming a b blocker but you're more of an
15:30
you're more of an
15:30
you're more of an enabler okay so self-service is that
15:33
enabler okay so self-service is that
15:33
enabler okay so self-service is that then is it just about technology and
15:35
then is it just about technology and
15:35
then is it just about technology and tooling then so self-service is not
15:38
tooling then so self-service is not
15:38
tooling then so self-service is not about technology and tooling but it is
15:40
about technology and tooling but it is
15:40
about technology and tooling but it is also about process because there are not
15:42
also about process because there are not
15:42
also about process because there are not all the problem statements which you can
15:44
all the problem statements which you can
15:44
all the problem statements which you can uh solved by your technology and tooling
15:47
uh solved by your technology and tooling
15:47
uh solved by your technology and tooling there is also a set of like you know uh
15:50
there is also a set of like you know uh
15:50
there is also a set of like you know uh uh process and guidelines and governance
15:52
uh process and guidelines and governance
15:52
uh process and guidelines and governance which has to be in the organization for
15:53
which has to be in the organization for
15:53
which has to be in the organization for example you're ordering a subscription
15:56
example you're ordering a subscription
15:56
example you're ordering a subscription of course you know you have a fancy
15:57
of course you know you have a fancy
15:57
of course you know you have a fancy service now where you're going and
15:59
service now where you're going and
15:59
service now where you're going and you're clicking and then you know you're
16:00
you're clicking and then you know you're
16:00
you're clicking and then you know you're ordering a subscription to the cloud
16:02
ordering a subscription to the cloud
16:02
ordering a subscription to the cloud platform team good but you need an SLA
16:06
platform team good but you need an SLA
16:06
platform team good but you need an SLA you need you need that which engineering
16:08
you need you need that which engineering
16:08
you need you need that which engineering is working and you need that if if that
16:10
is working and you need that if if that
16:10
is working and you need that if if that SLA is Beach there is a penalty and that
16:12
SLA is Beach there is a penalty and that
16:12
SLA is Beach there is a penalty and that kind of thing so so so the service now
16:16
kind of thing so so so the service now
16:16
kind of thing so so so the service now thing the SLA uh and this like you know
16:19
thing the SLA uh and this like you know
16:19
thing the SLA uh and this like you know which engineer is working on that ticket
16:21
which engineer is working on that ticket
16:21
which engineer is working on that ticket this transparency with the developer if
16:23
this transparency with the developer if
16:23
this transparency with the developer if you have it then a cloud engineer
16:26
you have it then a cloud engineer
16:26
you have it then a cloud engineer doesn't have to go and order a
16:28
doesn't have to go and order a
16:28
doesn't have to go and order a subscription a a developer can do it by
16:30
subscription a a developer can do it by
16:30
subscription a a developer can do it by himself because you have a robust
16:32
himself because you have a robust
16:32
himself because you have a robust governance nice I like that a lot yeah
16:35
governance nice I like that a lot yeah
16:36
governance nice I like that a lot yeah know that's important to have have a a
16:38
know that's important to have have a a
16:38
know that's important to have have a a view of um of these U like environments
16:42
view of um of these U like environments
16:42
view of um of these U like environments as something that they can have um
16:45
as something that they can have um
16:45
as something that they can have um ownership and control over I guess but
16:47
ownership and control over I guess but
16:47
ownership and control over I guess but but within within guard rails within
16:49
but within within guard rails within
16:49
but within within guard rails within like there's a helping system around it
16:52
like there's a helping system around it
16:52
like there's a helping system around it exactly and then what happens is that
16:53
exactly and then what happens is that
16:53
exactly and then what happens is that slowly slowly you are moving out
16:55
slowly slowly you are moving out
16:55
slowly slowly you are moving out yourself from all these things you know
16:57
yourself from all these things you know
16:57
yourself from all these things you know which is taking a Time
16:59
which is taking a Time
16:59
which is taking a Time and this is how you transition yourself
17:01
and this is how you transition yourself
17:01
and this is how you transition yourself from a Project based Cloud team to Cloud
17:04
from a Project based Cloud team to Cloud
17:04
from a Project based Cloud team to Cloud Center of Excellence nice so just as a
17:07
Center of Excellence nice so just as a
17:08
Center of Excellence nice so just as a as a final thought before we we close
17:10
as a final thought before we we close
17:10
as a final thought before we we close out the episode today I I love this
17:11
out the episode today I I love this
17:11
out the episode today I I love this conversation this is absolutely
17:13
conversation this is absolutely
17:13
conversation this is absolutely brilliant um what about the organ what
17:16
brilliant um what about the organ what
17:16
brilliant um what about the organ what which demands does this actually set on
17:18
which demands does this actually set on
17:18
which demands does this actually set on your organization to sort of organize
17:20
your organization to sort of organize
17:20
your organization to sort of organize around these these uh good practices
17:23
around these these uh good practices
17:23
around these these uh good practices that you have been describing so I mean
17:25
that you have been describing so I mean
17:25
that you have been describing so I mean like you know this is the learning curve
17:27
like you know this is the learning curve
17:27
like you know this is the learning curve because we started our journey six years
17:29
because we started our journey six years
17:29
because we started our journey six years back and then you know I mean like you
17:32
back and then you know I mean like you
17:32
back and then you know I mean like you know I'm I'm I'm in Azure and Dev since
17:34
know I'm I'm I'm in Azure and Dev since
17:34
know I'm I'm I'm in Azure and Dev since six years now close to six years let's
17:36
six years now close to six years let's
17:36
six years now close to six years let's say and then you know we've been always
17:38
say and then you know we've been always
17:38
say and then you know we've been always doing okay one project is coming we are
17:40
doing okay one project is coming we are
17:40
doing okay one project is coming we are doing and then you know there are like
17:42
doing and then you know there are like
17:42
doing and then you know there are like you know two back and forth oh this is
17:43
you know two back and forth oh this is
17:43
you know two back and forth oh this is not working that is not working oh you
17:45
not working that is not working oh you
17:45
not working that is not working oh you did not deliver in time some escalation
17:48
did not deliver in time some escalation
17:48
did not deliver in time some escalation calls and everything we have seen every
17:50
calls and everything we have seen every
17:50
calls and everything we have seen every single thing and then we started to
17:51
single thing and then we started to
17:51
single thing and then we started to think that okay this is happening in
17:53
think that okay this is happening in
17:53
think that okay this is happening in every project because you know the
17:55
every project because you know the
17:55
every project because you know the projects are not stopping it is always
17:57
projects are not stopping it is always
17:57
projects are not stopping it is always coming and you know you you have to
17:59
coming and you know you you have to
17:59
coming and you know you you have to realize that okay you are now four
18:00
realize that okay you are now four
18:00
realize that okay you are now four member team okay you are handling
18:02
member team okay you are handling
18:02
member team okay you are handling certain projects then you a certain
18:05
certain projects then you a certain
18:05
certain projects then you a certain number of project comes in you hire two
18:07
number of project comes in you hire two
18:07
number of project comes in you hire two more people so then I started to think
18:10
more people so then I started to think
18:10
more people so then I started to think Magnus that okay if like there are 100
18:13
Magnus that okay if like there are 100
18:13
Magnus that okay if like there are 100 project which means that you know I will
18:14
project which means that you know I will
18:14
project which means that you know I will have 50 people for example which which
18:17
have 50 people for example which which
18:17
have 50 people for example which which which which means that number of project
18:20
which which means that number of project
18:20
which which means that number of project is directly proportional to number of
18:21
is directly proportional to number of
18:21
is directly proportional to number of resources which makes think that sooner
18:25
resources which makes think that sooner
18:25
resources which makes think that sooner or later I will not be running a
18:27
or later I will not be running a
18:27
or later I will not be running a technology team but I will be running a
18:29
technology team but I will be running a
18:29
technology team but I will be running a people's
18:31
people's
18:31
people's team you know and that is how we started
18:34
team you know and that is how we started
18:34
team you know and that is how we started to think and think and think and then we
18:36
to think and think and think and then we
18:36
to think and think and think and then we started to came up with decentralized
18:37
started to came up with decentralized
18:37
started to came up with decentralized devops and slowly slowly ramping up this
18:39
devops and slowly slowly ramping up this
18:39
devops and slowly slowly ramping up this whole
18:40
whole
18:40
whole product that's important that's
18:42
product that's important that's
18:42
product that's important that's important to to take advantage of the
18:47
important to to take advantage of the
18:47
important to to take advantage of the you know the scale the scalability
18:49
you know the scale the scalability
18:49
you know the scale the scalability factors because that's what Microsoft
18:50
factors because that's what Microsoft
18:50
factors because that's what Microsoft have been doing for example if we're
18:52
have been doing for example if we're
18:52
have been doing for example if we're talking about Azure with uh having so
18:54
talking about Azure with uh having so
18:54
talking about Azure with uh having so many servers running so many
18:57
many servers running so many
18:57
many servers running so many applications and only few people are
18:59
applications and only few people are
18:59
applications and only few people are operating them yeah yeah true true true
19:02
operating them yeah yeah true true true
19:02
operating them yeah yeah true true true true it's always it's always essential
19:04
true it's always it's always essential
19:04
true it's always it's always essential that you know when you are building such
19:06
that you know when you are building such
19:06
that you know when you are building such Frameworks and everything you are a very
19:08
Frameworks and everything you are a very
19:08
Frameworks and everything you are a very very concise and and a very very
19:10
very concise and and a very very
19:10
very concise and and a very very technology driven team uh I mean not not
19:14
technology driven team uh I mean not not
19:14
technology driven team uh I mean not not more than like 10 people because you're
19:17
more than like 10 people because you're
19:17
more than like 10 people because you're responsible for the framework and for
19:19
responsible for the framework and for
19:20
responsible for the framework and for framework you know we don't need 100
19:22
framework you know we don't need 100
19:22
framework you know we don't need 100 peoples but in order and you know you
19:24
peoples but in order and you know you
19:24
peoples but in order and you know you need to develop that whole in a in a way
19:27
need to develop that whole in a in a way
19:27
need to develop that whole in a in a way which is going to help people and that's
19:29
which is going to help people and that's
19:29
which is going to help people and that's what we are doing is is there is there a
19:31
what we are doing is is there is there a
19:31
what we are doing is is there is there a concise way of of describing the target
19:34
concise way of of describing the target
19:34
concise way of of describing the target for this what what are we aiming for uh
19:38
for this what what are we aiming for uh
19:38
for this what what are we aiming for uh if if somebody who's listening wants to
19:40
if if somebody who's listening wants to
19:40
if if somebody who's listening wants to understand how to get there so so it it
19:43
understand how to get there so so it it
19:44
understand how to get there so so it it it means that uh we all talk about
19:46
it means that uh we all talk about
19:46
it means that uh we all talk about platform Engineers platform engineering
19:48
platform Engineers platform engineering
19:48
platform Engineers platform engineering and everything but when we talk about
19:50
and everything but when we talk about
19:50
and everything but when we talk about platform engineering we are still
19:52
platform engineering we are still
19:52
platform engineering we are still talking about certain Cloud efficient
19:55
talking about certain Cloud efficient
19:55
talking about certain Cloud efficient people managing the infrastructure for
19:58
people managing the infrastructure for
19:58
people managing the infrastructure for you but I am going one level up I'm
20:01
you but I am going one level up I'm
20:01
you but I am going one level up I'm saying yes this is a cloud platform team
20:05
saying yes this is a cloud platform team
20:05
saying yes this is a cloud platform team but there's a framework and the cloud
20:07
but there's a framework and the cloud
20:07
but there's a framework and the cloud platform team is only managing the
20:09
platform team is only managing the
20:09
platform team is only managing the framework but the developers have all
20:12
framework but the developers have all
20:12
framework but the developers have all the uh freedom to use that framework and
20:15
the uh freedom to use that framework and
20:15
the uh freedom to use that framework and deploy the resources play around delete
20:18
deploy the resources play around delete
20:18
deploy the resources play around delete change it whatever they want to do it
20:20
change it whatever they want to do it
20:20
change it whatever they want to do it they have it that is one level up
20:23
they have it that is one level up
20:23
they have it that is one level up interesting all right that's brilliant
20:25
interesting all right that's brilliant
20:25
interesting all right that's brilliant thank you honestly this has been such a
20:27
thank you honestly this has been such a
20:27
thank you honestly this has been such a good conversation could go on and on and
20:29
good conversation could go on and on and
20:29
good conversation could go on and on and on but we're not allowed to we have to
20:31
on but we're not allowed to we have to
20:31
on but we're not allowed to we have to stop
20:34
now thank you for being on the show
20:36
now thank you for being on the show
20:36
now thank you for being on the show today I really really appreciated it
20:38
today I really really appreciated it
20:39
today I really really appreciated it thank you so much M for having me yeah
20:41
thank you so much M for having me yeah
20:41
thank you so much M for having me yeah and thanks audience see you next time on
20:43
and thanks audience see you next time on
20:43
and thanks audience see you next time on the cloud show see you byebye
20:47
the cloud show see you byebye
20:47
the cloud show see you byebye [Music]